New disks for old computers

[kakarot]

Hi, I'm fairly new to the C64, and I had a couple of questions. I was looking at http://www.athana.com/html/diskette.html and I was wondering which disks would be best for use on a 1541 drive. Also, If I had a 5.25" drive in my PC can I just copy C64 Apps and whatnot over to it or would I need a special conversion program?
Thanks lotz,
Brant

[kakarot]

Another thing, is there a way to rig a normal tape player to a C64 not to save data, but only to access it? Or is there a way to convert the data off of the tape onto a disk form???? I'm pretty savvy with a soldering iron, if I just knew which pins were which. I'm sure one of you out there has the schematics.

[gklinger]

I was looking at http://www.athana.com/html/diskette.html and I was wondering which disks would be best for use on a 1541 drive.

Single or Double Sided, Double Density (SDDD or DSDD.) I believe the only disks Athana are making/selling are DSDD and they will work just fine either in a 1541 (a single sided drive) or a 1571 (a double sided drive.) You can even notch them and flip them so you can use both sides in a 1541.

Also, If I had a 5.25" drive in my PC can I just copy C64 Apps and whatnot over to it or would I need a special conversion program?

You can't use a 5.25" disk drive on your PC to read/write to a disk and then have it be readable/writable on a Commodore disk drive. There is a 3rd party controller called the Catweasel which will allow you to do so but it's costly and the drivers aren't that great.

Another thing, is there a way to rig a normal tape player to a C64 not to save data, but only to access it?

There's no simple way. It can be done but it's convoluted and requires using a sound card to record the sounds produced by the tape drive.

[kakarot]

There's no simple way. It can be done but it's convoluted and requires using a sound card to record the sounds produced by the tape drive.

But all the data on a tape is is just high pitch sounds, so I've heard. How does a normal dtatsette transfre this data? Doesn't it just feed the audio into the C=? So, couldn't you just solder on a headphone jack, and play the tapes? And at that, couldn't you do the same with a CD player, or even straight from the PC? If I'm confused about this, please just tell me, as I said before, I'm new the the C= scene, but I've read ALOT about it over the last month or two.

[rbernardo]

Another thing, is there a way to rig a normal tape player to a C64 not to save data, but only to access it?

Back in the day, there were ways to hook up cassette drives to the C64 via a joystick port. Of course, you'd have to have the special adapter for that.

Or is there a way to convert the data off of the tape onto a disk form????

Easiest method was to use a datasette drive and LOAD the data from tape (provided there was no auto-run feature in the data) and then SAVE onto disk with SAVE"dataname",x,x

Truly,

[gklinger]

How does a normal dtatsette transfre this data? Doesn't it just feed the audio into the C=?

Not exactly. It works in much the same way as a modem. I really don't see why you would want to bother anyway as a tape drive costs less than the cost of lunch at McDonalds. I would advise that you spare yourself the grief and stick with a disk drive.

[technoid]

How does a normal dtatsette transfre this data? Doesn't it just feed the audio into the C=?

Not exactly. It works in much the same way as a modem. I really don't see why you would want to bother anyway as a tape drive costs less than the cost of lunch at McDonalds. I would advise that you spare yourself the grief and stick with a disk drive.

Same here, invest in a disk drive. Sure there are ways to make a cassette load/save faster, but it can't do other things a disk can do (like random access, etc). From what I remember (correct me if incorrect), the datasette recordes a pulsewave type waveform onto the tape at only two signal levels, zero and high (digital), thus a very quick edge transition. On an audio cassette, the waveform could degradate into a varying level type signal, which may be hard for the C64 to interpret. I too have seen some of the mods for an ordinary audio cassette, but it's been awhile.

[gklinger]

For what it's worth, there's an easy way to double the performance of a tape drive and that's to write once. By default, everything is saved twice to ensure the integrity of the data. If you write once, you double the speed.

There was a program called Supertape by a hacker named Elgar that speeds up tape access by doing much what I just described.

[technoid]

For what it's worth, there's an easy way to double the performance of a tape drive and that's to write once. By default, everything is saved twice to ensure the integrity of the data. If you write once, you double the speed.

There was a program called Supertape by a hacker named Elgar that speeds up tape access by doing much what I just described.

Exactly, it recorded the program twice like a form of redundancy test and would correct the first program if the second looked different, hence slow. This error detect and correct really did make the datasette more reliable than most of the other cassettes for other micros then, in sacrifice of speed. I don't know how old Supertape is, but I remember seeing Turbotape as a type-in program in Compute! (1985 issues I think) for the C64/Vic20. It changed the record format, including getting rid of the 2nd program recording and sped up loads/saves, supposedly as fast as a 1541. Unfortunately I never typed it in to make any speed comparisons. I still have all my Compute!'s so maybe I'll take a gander one of these days. I believe Turbotape from Compute! 1985 is different (and much older) than Turbo Tape 64, tho not really sure.

[kakarot]

Ok, I'm getting a 1541 (finnaly!!!) but Gklinger, you said the tape drives are cheap, does anyone have one thay could spare? I don't really want to risk messing up my only drive trying to do the transfer thing. Rather, I would like to download the audio on the tape off the internet and transfer it that way. Plus, I'm a real geek and I love to do stuff like this in the most complicated way possible Or, are you sure there is no way, without horribly hacking my PC, to transfer the .D64 (?) files onto your average garden variety 5.25" drive? I figured there would be a program out there to do this. Or do the two drives operate completely differently? Thanks for all your help!

[gklinger]

I would recommend getting one from your nearest user group. The Cincinnati Commodore Computer Club will sell you one for $2 (see here) and I'm sure that Robert Bernardo, President of the Fresno Commodore User Group and active Commodore.ca member could help you out. He has been very gracious in helping me obtain several hard-to-find Commodore items.

[kakarot]

Yes, that's the only problem about living in Kuntucky, (I plan to get out ASAP) the closest user's club is 3 hours away! I would absolutely LOVE to go and get some cheap supplies, but gas the way it is today... Shipping on a datasette wouldn't be too high, would it? not like a PSU or a 1541. As far as I can find, there's no user's groups near Ashland or even in KY, other than frankfort. --sigh-- Ah well, such is the way of the world.

[gklinger]

CCCC, as the name implies, is in Cincinnati and that isn't too far from Ashland (only a little bit further than Frankfort from what I gather.) I would check with them because I'm sure they would be willing to mail one to you and I can't imagine that would cost more than a few bucks. I doubt you'll get one for less.

[wiskow]

Yes, that's the only problem about living in Kuntucky, (I plan to get out ASAP) the closest user's club is 3 hours away!

I'm a member of the aforementioned Fresno Commodore User Group, and I make the 4½-hour drive up to Fresno to attend their meetings whenever I'm able to (so far, twice this year). I also made the 3-hour drive to attend CommVEx in Las Vegas. Commodore user groups are quite scarce these days compared to "the old days" when there was at least one in every major city.

-Andrew

[rbernardo]

Yes, that's the only problem about living in Kuntucky, (I plan to get out ASAP) the closest user's club is 3 hours away!

I go to The Other Group of Amigoids (TOGA) meeting, and that is 3 1/2 hours away. A long drive to that Amiga club.

I also made the 3-hour drive to attend CommVEx in Las Vegas.

Wow, makes my 5 1/2 drive from Visalia to Las Vegas seem really long.

Commodore user groups are quite scarce these days compared to "the old days" when there was at least one in every major city.

Hey, when you and Charles get together, that's a C= group right there!

Truly,