Commodore.ca: The PET, VIC, 128, 64 & More Forum

Could someone please explain to me the appeal of the old chicklet PETs. Personally, I won't buy anything less than a PET 2001-N-16 series (of which I own several). The PET 2001-N series are at least useful. They have a full size keyboard which is wonderful for typing and sufficient memory for serious programming. The chicklet PETs have only 8K of memory which makes them nearly useless for most programs. And, the chicklet keyboard makes typing a program of any serious length nearly impossible. Why would anyone who wants to program on a PET want a PET 2001 with the chicklet keyboard? Could someone please explain this to me? The only reason I can find for buying a chicklet PET is either for nostalgia or as an investment. As an investment, are the chicklet PETs really going to be worth a whole lot more money 50 years from now? I think not! You'd be better off putting your money in the bank at 1% interest than buying a chicklet PET as an investment. If anyone knows something about the chicklets that I don't, please enlighten me.
Thanks!
Mark

Personable85 wrote:Could someone please explain to me the appeal of the old chicklet PETs?

Oooo, serious issues against PET 2001's with chiclet keyboards!

Owner of such a PET,

(This is a copy of my reply as posted in COMMODORE BUY/ SELL / TRADE under posting entitled: Chicklet PET)


I made my comments about the chicklet PETs because I am baffled by the amout of money they are getting on ebay compared to any other series of Commodore PET/CBM computers . I simply can't understand why they are so popular compared to others in the Commodore inventory. So, I began to wonder if there was something about the chicklet PETs that I was missing.

I grew up with the VIC-20 and C64. I had PETs in high school. Now, I collect PET/CBMs as a hobby. Among other things, I love their design and uniqueness; especially the PET 2001-N series, PET 4032s and the CBM 8032s (I don't like the look of the later PETs such as the 8296s). I see them as art and even display some of them in my home as such. For me, they are a pleasure to the eye. I can't say that about the chicklet PETs (or today's modern computers). It is not my intention to offend chicklet PET owners. To each their own. I am simply stating a fact which is true for me. I simply cannot see the appeal of the chicklet PETs.

It is true that the old 8 bit computers are of little or no use today. Modern computers are better in every way. The only advantage computers like the PET have is their ease of programming. It is far more fun to program on an 8 bit computer (I believe) than a modern computer. Today's modern computers are for serious programmers. Teams of programmers make today's programs. The days of programming for fun and liesure are gone. For amateur programmers such as myself, you have Microsoft Visual Basic and that's it. Today's Basic language is a lot more difficult to learn and use than Basic from the past. That's where the old computers come in. They fill the ease-of-use programming gap nicely. I believe that both the new and old computers can co-exist nicely. Neither is stepping on the other's turf. Today, you can have the best of both worlds. You can have it all.

Whoa, deja-vu.

Personable85 wrote:It is true that the old 8 bit computers are of little or no use today.

Oops, then I had better stop using my C128DCR for e-mail, chatting, telnetting, going to BBSes, text web-browsing, desktop publishing, doing spreadsheets, word-processing, maintaining databases, and playing games.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

rbernardo wrote:

Personable85 wrote:It is true that the old 8 bit computers are of little or no use today.

Oops, then I had better stop using my C128DCR for e-mail, chatting, telnetting, going to BBSes, text web-browsing, desktop publishing, doing spreadsheets, word-processing, maintaining databases, and playing games.

With all due respect, I think you're both guilty of hyperbole although Robert's defensive response is not inappropriate, particularly when one considers the forum. Usefulness, like beauty, exists in the eye of the beholder and Robert is clearly making great use of his Commodore and has been doing so for years.

To avoid the accusation of lying by omission, it warrants saying that Robert's 128 is not a host on the Internet. He connects through a shell server so his 128 is nothing more than a dumb terminal. The web browser he uses (I presume it is Lynx) is running on the shell server he connects to and even if he was using Contiki, defining it as a web browser by today's standards would be specious. One can achieve 90% of the functionality by using telnet to connect to port 80 and issuing a few "GET" commands.

Personable85's second post is so filled with generalizations that it seems more likely to kick-off a flamewar rather than a thoughtful discussion. Surely we've all had enough of the former?

Listen folks! I love my Commodores! But, how in Hell could you ever begin to compare a modern PC with ANY Commodore? I have a cheap $300 Compact Pesario which is good enough for Internet use and to play some old PC games,yet it would run galactic circles around any Comodore computer (I don't care what model). I love Commodore, but a reality break is in order.

Thats not what collecting commodores is about.

For me its nostalgia. I received my first commodore when I was 9 years old, (parents bribing me to stop skipping school) and I spent most my pre-teen and teenage life on that computer. It gave me a love for computers that extended well into my adult life where I now make a very large amount of money. All because of that commodore.

Now every time I see a commodore my heart aches as memory brings me back to those days many years ago typing in programs from Computes Gazette, calling text bbs' with a 300 baud modem, and a myriad of other things.

But of course newer computers are more powerful. Is a new corvette faster then an old Ford Model-T?? Of course it is, but would rather have a priceless Model-T with a great history or a run-of-the-mill Corvette?

gklinger wrote:With all due respect, I think you're both guilty of hyperbole...

Hmm... hyperbole... "obvious and intentional exaggeration". Nope, not exaggerating at all.

gklinger wrote:...although Robert's defensive response is not inappropriate

Defensive response? More like, "pointing out the facts".

Truly,

rbernardo wrote:Hmm... hyperbole... "obvious and intentional exaggeration". Nope, not exaggerating at all.

Hyperbole describes the spirits of your response and your general attitude on this matter. I've lost count of the number of times you've stressed that you're able to do everything with your Commodores but I recall your having to use the 'modern' computers at work to look at a PDF. That's a good example of a fairly common task that a Commodore cannot do. There are others. I also noticed that you deftly avoided dealing my germane points about activities like web browsing.

At any rate, you've made your feelings clear and that which is understood need not be discussed.

gklinger wrote:...although Robert's defensive response is not inappropriate

Defensive response? More like, "pointing out the facts".

The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

gklinger wrote:Hyperbole describes the spirits of your response and your general attitude on this matter.

Sorry to be nitpicky then, Golan, but you are using the term, hyperbole, incorrectly then.

gklinger wrote: I've lost count of the number of times you've stressed that you're able to do everything with your Commodores...

Uh, I have never said that. Please point out the specific example if you have seen such a thing.

gklinger wrote:...but I recall your having to use the 'modern' computers at work to look at a PDF.

Agreed, but I've never said that I can browse a PDF document with a Commodore.

gklinger wrote:I also noticed that you deftly avoided dealing my germane points about activities like web browsing.

Uh, I said I text-browsed with my Commodore. I did not say the manner with which I text-browsed with my Commodore.

gklinger wrote:The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

Methinks you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Hmm, very odd the position you are taking,

Chicklet PET is COOL and a reminder of the free and open world of computers as it WAS in the past. My first real exposure to computers was in jr. high and it was when the math dept. purchased two of these fascinating machines that got me into computers.

I remember well how everybody argued for time on the machines

I have several VIC-20's and 64's I use regularly as universal programmable controllers and whatever other simple tasks I might need them to do. Currently V-20's and 64's are real cheap on eBay and are an excellent alternative to purchasing basic stamps or PIC's and accessories at higher cost , plus they are already ready already , plug it in and GO...

I recently purchased both a chicklet PET for the memories and just to have one, and a CBM 8032 to actually use

With todays locked down and controlled computing platforms , it is refereshing to be able to get back into the older WIDE open systems of the past. I say wide open because I still cannot find any detailed technical info/schematics on my PC

As with any collectable thing , the first of any series will command the most interest even if it is inferior . Chicklet PET was Commodore's 1st all in one so I guess it is the most wanted for collectability.

Dave

I agree..it is for collection and showing off to friends who drop by and look where I started

I still have a this PET with the 2 original kernal ROMS (one was added after) and a boxful of tapes). I still play "aliens" on it...

-- did you see the transformer on that case...beats the hell out of a PC p/supply (size wise anyway..just a joke)

-- I wish I can convert the whole ROM sets to one size EPROM chip...

During those days, the Pet, Vic-20 and C64 made you create gadgets to make life easy.
--for the PET, we modified to make the cassette beep a 555 circuit after the tape load...by sensing the motor speed.

-- C64 --we converted Magic Desk to have a few Eproms, bankswitch the Eproms to go from program to the other. Added 2 or more Kernal ROMs with fastloads, etc.

Sorry, I have taken so much time and space...my point is the PET is a collectible..and when it is not readily available, people will pay to have it..

Yes, beauty IS in the eye of the beholder.

There is no comparison as far as functionality is concerned between the generic box that I type this reply on and anything that C= once produced.

But lets face it... In the last year I'll bet I've walked by scores of tower cases in the trash with nary a second look. Think I would have left a VIC to the trash man though? Yeah, right.

During those days, the Pet, Vic-20 and C64 made you create gadgets to make life easy.
--for the PET, we modified to make the cassette beep a 555 circuit

Indeed - so true. The project I'm currently working on, I've decided against all reason and to the raised eyebrows of my co workers to use "old' hardware where i can. A PCI protocard, C++, and a pair of PICs would run circles around 2 tons of C= harware, but there's just no cool factor - or nostalgia - involved.

I just bought a laptop worth more than my car. But at the end of the day the one thing it won't do - can never do - is give me the utter satisfaction that I get writing a particularly clever routine on a C= that works at the machine's bus level.