Commodore.ca: The PET, VIC, 128, 64 & More Forum

Hi Guys,

Recently I've found the user manual of the 1351 mouse in the manuals section of this site.
The manual contains a machine language program with a Basic loader, which works fine
under Vice emulator, when "Grab mouse events" option is enabled.
I've decided to try the program on a real C64 with a real 1351 mouse, so I've ran the program,
the pointer appears on the screen, but it's not responding to mouse movements.

Until the mouse is connected to joystick port#1 the keyboard becomes disabled, it's not reacting to keystrokes.
During mouse movements characters appearing on the screen, like when a joystick is connected.
Is this normal?
When the mouse is plugged into port#2 the keyboard works, but the key mapping is incorrect.

I've also tried to display the POTX and POTY register values of the SID, but they're constatly showing 255 (FF),
regardless of mouse movement. The contents of these registers are changing when trying the same in Vice emulator.

Maybe there's something wrong with my 1351 mouse?
Does anyone know how should the C64 react to a known good 1351 mouse (e.g.: disabled keyboard)?
Or could this be a hardware failure between the joystick port(s) and the SID (e.g.: failure of the 4066)?

Comments would be appreciated.
Thank you.

Ordinarily, you would plug the 1351 into joystick port #1. The keyboard is not supposed to be disabled when the mouse is connected there. If the 6581 or 8580 SID chip has failed or partially failed, then you would have no or little response from the mouse.

Truly,

Hi,

Thanks for the response.
Yes, by default port #1 is selected as POTX and POTY signal source, but it can be switched
to port #2 as well through the 4066 switch. Since the POTX and POTY registers showing
constant 255 readings, I think the mouse inputs from the joystick ports are not reaching the SID,
or the SID might be partially damaged as you mentioned.

I will try the mouse with an other C64 as well, to see how that machine reacts...

I'm starting to have doubts regarding my mouse: is it really a 1351?
Looking from the top the 1350, 1351 and 1352 mouses are the same?

Here's a picture how it is looks from the bottom:

Oh, that looks like a metal collar around the mini D plug. That means it is an Amiga mouse, which is not compatible with Commodore.

Truly,

Well, yes it seems... (I bought it as a 1351).
I tried it with an other C64 with the same keyboard blocking result.
Finally I've opened up the mouse and instead of the 20pin MOS5717,
I found a 14pin BA10339 quad comparator. So it's not a 1351.

Have you tried to update your mouse driver? I think it maybe driver problems. My mouse freezes several days ago, but I used a drivers update utility to update my mouse driver, and it can now work pretty well! You can also try it to see whether it works on your problem

Hi Celestine,

And welcome to the forum !
Well, I haven't tried to update the driver, because I wanted to handle mouse events by myself, inside of my program(s).
I have checked the SID registers directly, where the X and Y coordinates should be present, and there's no change in the values
during mouse movements (this suggests hardware related issue).
SomeOne may correct me, but as far as I can tell there's no updated version of the driver available since the mid '80s
(which is works like an "extension", by adding a sprite mouse cursor to the Basic screen).
It seems the root cause of the problem is hardware incompatibility between 1351 and 1352 mouses,
despite they're look (almost) the same, but they're different inside. The mouse I have (which seems a 1352 instead of 1351)
has a more simpler circuitry compared to the 1351.

rbernardo wrote:Oh, that looks like a metal collar around the mini D plug. That means it is an Amiga mouse, which is not compatible with Commodore.

Truly,

If it were truly a 1351 mouse, it would have "1351" printed on on the bottom of the mouse. It can be hard to tell the difference between the 1351 and Amiga mouses from the top - they look alike if it's an older Amiga mouse. It's a very easy mistake to make.
Today I have changed to a modern laser mouse for my C-64, C-128 and Amiga computers. I use a couple of Mircomys v3 & v4 adapters to use USB mouses. http://www.micromys.de/1351mode.htm
Now I have no ball to get the mouse insides all dusty, plus the new mouse is much faster.

hi!
what IS a 1351 mice? busmouse (with quadrature on the pins of here) ? maybe amiga mouse can work or PC BUS mouse can? ofcoz after changing some pins each with other?
or maybe 1351 is a serial mouse?

Hmm, thank you for sharing guys

AlexVivat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:40 pm hi!
what IS a 1351 mice? busmouse (with quadrature on the pins of here) ? maybe amiga mouse can work or PC BUS mouse can? ofcoz after changing some pins each with other?
or maybe 1351 is a serial mouse?

The 1352 one (Amiga) can be used as a bus mouse. The 1351 is built around a custom Commodore chip and it's not compatible with the 1352.

I recently had a similar problem, I still couldn’t solve it, you just threw it away